Monday, July 28, 2008

Discussion Question #2


First, I would like to welcome my daughter Mya Elizabeth to the world, born July 24th @3:41pm. It has been a little crazy lately.
So, from here on out I will updating every few days. I am happy to see so much interaction between the bloggers. On top of that, most of the post have been in depth with plenty of deep analysis. For some, you need to do that, discuss the question, use another angle than what someone else wrote and make sure what ever you write is correct. Another note, once again, please use a blog name that I can give you credit what you write This is intended for the students have done this.
Please use the opportunity of sitting with Ms. Stollwerk at a coffee house discussion: she will be on Tuesday, July 29th, 5-7 pm - Starbucks on the SW corner of 87th and Lexington. Take the 4,5, or 6 subway line to 86th street. Go out theNE corner (assuming you are coming from the Bronx) and to the western side of Lexington. You will see the starbucks next to the Staples and Barnes and Noble.
Question #2:
How are Polynesian Islands "an experiment of history"? What conclusions does Diamond draw from their history?

31 comments:

adolfo abreu said...

The Polynesian Islands is an experiment on history to me since it shows the superiority of one force and how they demolished a weak force. The Maori were conquered since they were primitive because they weren't technologically advanced like the Moriori. This is an experiment since other civilizations decline occurred since they weren't advanced in their technologically advance. That is what i believe...hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say.

Luis the lion-hearted said...

The Polynesian Islands are an "experiment of history" for several reasons. one general reason is that the islands are a representation of the world. The island has different climates, diverse people and interaction between people and geography. Of course the interaction is not always positive. Their is violence between people. But overall what happens in the Polynesian islands are a small representation of what happens in the real world and in history.

Luis the lion-hearted said...

oh, by the way, nice baby Mr.Farrelly. she's very cute!!!

Olivia Walker said...

The Polynesian Islands are known as "an experiment of history" to show the differences of human societies.
To see what reactions will come from the six sets of environmental variables, which are: Climate, Geological type, marine resources, area, terrain fragmentation, and isolation.
I believe that this is known as an experiment of history because these variables test what abilities these islands have. For example, the climate. Depending on the climate, human and food sources will behave differently.
Wars occurred with neighboring populations.
Some islands were more technologically developed than others.
And isolation brought along the domestication of animals, and food was depended on the islands agriculture.
To simply put it,
the Polynesian islands are considered an experiment of history because this is basically how life became life as we all know it now.
This so-called experiment focuses on each different society, and their reactions to those six environmental variables.
The point of an experiment, is to discover something unknown.
So, testing the variables on each of the islands helped discover something new, adding onto history.

kingrunz said...

Diamond introduces Polynesia’s discovery and settlement as an “experiment of history.” The main reason is because theses islands have very different cultures, climates, economies, government organizations, food productions, and human population sizes in their societies. The Polynesian Islands have very diverse human societies that they represent the world’s entire surface. The Polynesian Islands were mostly colonized by the same group of people and had similar cultures, but it eventually they diverged. The cultural differences that were present in Polynesia spread throughout the world. Diamond concludes that the Polynesian Islands are an “experiment of history” since they have huge human diversity. Diamond also points out that the Polynesian Islands are helpful in examining how their societies operated and how they worked together.

Lady S (jazz) said...

hello i had trouble getting into mi account is all! what chapter should i be up to by now?

Lady S (jazz) said...

After much contemplating, i believe that diamond hypothesized that New Guineans might be on average smarter than westerners, is because in most western families, most children spend their time idly. Watching T.V for an an average of more than 7 hours when in reality it should be an average of Two huors of television a day(an activity that requires no minnd participation and therefore one actually looses brain cells in the process. Not to mention the large amounts of radiation the viewer is being exposed to, one of the many factors by the way that contribute to cancer. So in fact, westerners are increasing their chances of getting csncer which happens to be deadly.) and listening to music from the time they awake tilll bend time. This leaves practically no time for mental development. New Guineans on the other hand are always active either tending the fields or providing shelter,huntering or cooking. Not only are the New Guineans mentally more active than the westerners because they aren'tstaring into a screen of 0010110, they are also being physicaaly active, improving the blood flow throughtout the body and ultimately to the brain. In addition, because the New Guineans are in an environment which is based soley on unity and manual labor to survive New Guineans are often in environment where they are forced to think on their feet such as when hunting. As ia result, of the New Guineans not having idle time like the westerners there minds and bodies are fit. Hence, the reason why Diamond came to the hypothesis that New Guineans might be on average smarter than westerners.

Lady S (jazz) said...

DiscussionQ#2:
The Polnesian Islands are "an experiment of history for numerous reasons.As we know history is the record of past events. However how can history exist without trial and error and without a mean some sort of rectification? That's where the experiment comes from which is the process by which something is discovered or proven. An experiment is made of many parts such as the control(constant), indepedent(doesn't act on anything) and dependent variable (depends on the independent variable), trial and error(test including alternatives), observations and last but not least data.So as an example, we've all read, The Maori and Moriori hailed from the same origin but then happily went their separate ways. Some Maori remained in New Eaeland while others left for the chatham islands, a much colder climate compared to the now moriori.IN an experiment the independent variable would be the whether, temperature, the control the areas in which these Polynesian peoples lived and the dependent variable, well, all depends on what resulted from these different climates.Hence the Maori who stayed in New Zealand developed large populations that became technologically advanced and engaged in warfare. THe Moriori on the otherhand because the climate they were exposed to the had to resort to bring huntergathers this did not allow much population growth, which was good actually considering the limited mass of the islands anyhow. AS a result it peopple became pacifists. Already one can see how certain variables such as environment influenced cerain results for geography "sets the stage for history." HOwever once these two cultures collided the Maori were able to conquer the moriori due to the technological advances.Hence one can conclude that MOre diversified societies have a longer life expectancy because of so many different ideas, In this case th Maori would be seen as diversified because the did conquer many lands. One can also conclude that when one thinks about history it alll comews down to " survival of the fittest" DArwins theory especially whenit came down to the Maori and Moriori. Hence, if such events did occur because of the environment and uktimately affected many other factors such as economy,technology, political organization as well as fighting skills then perhaps being "primitive" had nothing to due with the events at hand, but the inevitable, something that was already ordained?

Lady S (jazz) said...

Bring it on Farrelly!

Shai Johnson said...

Aslo, the polyseian islands explored many of the differences between two socites.How two different people were competing for the suvival.

[= Rebecca =] said...

Congratulations Mr.Farrelly! Your baby is adorable. =]

Diamond concludes that Polynesian islands are "an experiment of history" for various amount of reasons. Generally, the environments of the islands differ greatly depending on which one your at. The islands sort of represent a mini-version of our world since they are ecologically different. Through the Polynesian islands is that we are able to see the differences in how societies develop different methods to adapt according to their surroundings. However, some societies may develop technologically and politically better than others. For example, the Maori from New Zealand which were intensive farmers and the Moriori who were from the Chatham Islands and were hunter-gatherers. The Maori were able to conquer the Moriori because they were more experienced in war and more organized than the Moriori. Being that the Maori were farmers, they had the means to produce a surplus amount of food and free time to advance in other areas. Unlike the Moriori, who could not farm due to their environment. The Moriori were forced to be nomads and did not have time develop in other areas which later caused their defeat. The Maori's conquer over the Moriori goes to prove how differently societies develop in diverse environments and how some environments may benefit a society positively or negatively. Therefore, Polynesian Islands are "an experiment of history" because the islands illustrate a smaller version of what has occurred throughout history all over the world because of an areas' geography and its ability of affecting the development of societies.

juan said...

Polynesian islands are considered an "experiment of history". This is because the islands have different climates.like the world has different climates. The islands also have different people. These people interact in different ways. they trade but also fight. Same way people interact in the rest of the world. Nations sometimes trade with each other but other times go against each other. In other words diamond concludes that the islands are "an experiment of history" because everything that happens in the diverse islands happen in history. Its like the islands are a miniature world.

jamiepazpaxpeace said...

From the polynesian islands the Maori, and Moriori are an experiment due to the fact that they orgianlly came from the same people, divided amongst the island into two groups. One into a warrior-aggressive group, with a dominate leader and strict soical lines, while the other was a peace loving culture with no real stucture in the society.
So obviously the power hungry Moriori, who were engaged with serval battles before and most likely after the act of conquering the Maori, who offered peace and a share of crops.
The polynesian island is one with different climates, and enviroments. And as explained the the passage before this one that the enviroment of the people make the people who they are, whether or not they are similar is due to their resources. Due to maybe the lack of one resource over another, or the desire of more land or expansion of the empire creates conflict. While, again, the miriori show their overwhelming dominace over the maori by not only taking their land, but claiming victory beforehand, and then killing left and right; going even as far to cannibalism.
But going into it more, Miriori was a weaker society in that depended on their enviroment, and less on themselves. they used brawn not brains, being nomads and meaning that they still resorted to hunger-gather styles. In that sense, some ways, created a positive-negative factor, making these people extremely strong and willing for battle. While they most likely had a small group, maybe even abondening the weak to raise the strong as other cultures do, they made up for it with strength.
The Maori was a farming society, stable and had a surplus of foods making a larger society. Also making them weaker as warriors as they dont have to fight for foods as the Miriori.




Mr. Farrelly, your baby is so cute. Congratuations.

jamiepazpaxpeace said...

By the way Mr.

I'm Jamielee (just in case)

e.ayukawa said...

the polynesian islands was an experiment that shows how the maori and moriori differ in order to represent diverse aspects of climate geography and power. the maoiri were weaker in education and organization, and the moriori were the warrior type in power and were able to conquered them. this shows sides of different worlds and differences that live among them. it shows how the islands are causing the people to live accordingly to certain climate and geography which causes conflict in interaction, an example of what happens further more along history due to diverse cultures and behavior causes social conflict among different societies.

cristian24 said...

Sorry for the delay o.o, the past couple of weeks have been crazy. Well anyways, here's my response.

The Polynesian Islands are "an experiment of history" because the history between the Moriori and Maori islands is a way to see how environment reflects upon human societies. Since both societies developed from the same ancestral root but their environments differed greatly. Therefore, it was shown how environment can affect things such as economy, political organization, techonology, and fighting skills. Because the Moriori were hunter gatherers simple technology, inexprienced at war, and a lack of a strong leadership. While the Maori were expericned in battle, equipped with advanced techonology, and under a strong leadership. So this is what Diamond concludes, that the diffrences that developed between teh polynesian islands wree caused by island area, fragmentation, and isolation. All these factors played a role in this "experiment of history." The Polynesian islands represented the world and how diverse society due to these factors.

Guillermo said...

The islands are a experimant of history because of diverse geological features. therefore allowing more cultural diversity to its inhabitants.The moriori were the haves in the sense that they were advanced and the maori were the have nots.

DawonHan said...

The Polynesian Islands are an "experiment of history" because it was a small example of "environmentally related diversification of human societies." Starting with Mariori and Maori example, Diamond demonstrates the basis of how one group of people differ into two environmentally diverse groups and survive. Marioris, having no accesible or other islands to colonize themselves with learned to get along and communicate with each other by renouncing war and reducing the potential of overpopulation by castrating the male infants. Ultimately, the Marioris became an unwarlike population, as well as hunter-gatherers, because they could not grow crops in their climate and environments. Maoris, on the other hand, lived in a warmer part of New Zealand, allowing them to grow diverse crops. They were constantly in raging wars with neighboring islands, and also had enough surplus of crops to feed the craft specialists, chiefs, and soldiers. Thanks to their environment and way of survival, the Maoris came to develop various tools for growing crops, fighting, and art.

The Polynesian Islands contained various elements to determine a lifestyle of a specific group of people. Climate, geological type, marine resources, area, terrain texture, and isolation were the key six elements that contributed to the differences among these Polynesian societies. Many societies of the Polynesian islands varied in the aspects of agriculture, advancement in tools, government and political complexity, population, economy and social complexity, architecure and art, and lastly, advantages. In conclusion, Diamond leaves the thought that although only a small demonstration and representation of the world, the Polynesian Island experiment reveals the true colors of how environment affects not only how survival, lifestyle, and societies take form, but also leads the readers to recognize human greed, the limits of what we take to be the best, and what happens when the vulnerable is exposed to the powerful.

DawonHan said...

Oh, and congratulations Mr. Farrelly! She's adorable ^_^

♥Israt♥ said...

The Polynesian Islands is “an experiment of history”, since there are many different island involved, each one of those small islands are representing the 7 continents that are on Earth. The small problems and Maori conquering Moriori, represents what happen in our history and society. Due to the environments, different group of people who are from the same origin, later evolve in a different Island with different techniques to survive. Everyone on earth are originally from Africa but as the human population started migrating they all had different ways to survive due to their environment then they started conquering one another, like Genghis Khan’s group who has conquered more than half of the Asia. I believe that Diamond concluded that the Polynesian island show how peoples environment affect their thoughts and needs because after hearing about the food resources that are in Moriori’s island the Maori attacked them, they’re needs are really important to them so human become selfish and do whatever it is needed to fulfill their needs.

Anonymous said...

Hey Mr. Farrelly....... congragulations on your baby......... you should bring her to school one day.......

Heres my answer........

The Polynesian Islands are reffered to as "an experiment of history" because they simbolized the people inhabiting the world. The Polynesian Islands was constructed by many small, but rather differing pieces of land.
These islands differ greatly in area, isolation, elevation, climate, productivity, and geological/biological resources. Soon after, other societies came to these islands and colonized them all. So now the island was diverse in population. Climate had a big effect on the islands. In the island of Chathman, the climate there was cold..... so farming wouldn't do much good there. Those people were forced to stay as hunter-gatherers..... which by at that time it was very primitive. In islads of the north, its climate was warm and tropical..... and that was good for them because then they would be able to farm and expand their society. These people were also able to increase their technology, since they were able to adapt to farming. These changes among the island themselves were significant in that the adaptions that some of the societies made were very likely to happen in the greater part of the world. Thus Daimond states that if many adaptions and advances occured in just a small area of the world, and all the geological/biological factors that contributed to those changes....... then it is possible that it can also happen in a much larger area....for example, the earths continents.

Shai Johnson said...

The polysenesian Islands are an experiment on history because it shows how two peoples the maori and moriori interacted. Aslo how they went up aganist each other with the maori being techonolgy advance and the moriori being non-techinal advance.It's shows how a advance group could colonized anther group.The maori aslo enslaved the moriori though the moriori wanted a placeful reslove. The maori still attacked them.The moriori wouldn't get their independence until years until. That shows us that enslaved peoples will get independence. Aslo the polyesian island are located on an axis which deprived them of trade with other nations. Aslo their axis run from east to west so geographical isolation would be a factor.

Athena(cathy) said...

Okay I guess my entry didn't go in. So here it goes(again). The Polynesian islands were an experiment on history because the Polyneasian island is like the world. It has the geography of the whole world and are almost like a miniture 7 continents. It was an experiment on history becuase if the islands acted a certain way it represented the fate of the rest of the world. The world has several places which were all discovred at various times, just like the islands. The place was more of a test in the way the world would handle differences in climate and technology. The Polynesian islands failed this test just as the world did. How? Well they tried to conquer each other, if I'm not mistaken. However the people did learn to adapt to diffrences in land and climate. It was like growing a little world in a petri-dish and watching it evolve quicky watching as it grows and develops into a cicilized place, shunning the places that arent. The conclusion that Jered Diamond draws from their history is that they are smarter because as they grew, leaving some places isolate as the world does today, the people are thinking more than the rest of the civilized world is. The average person today doesn't use their brain too much, but these people do. They don't relay in the luxuries of today. Now that I look back at it, these islanders did pass the test. The are smarter than "us" even if they may not look it.

Cintia said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cintia said...

Polynesian islands are like "an experiment of history" because all those islands represent the continents, it represents the world in a way. All of those islands differ in climate, geological type, marine resources, area, terran fragmentation and lastly isolation. The Maoris, from New Zealand's north island were more advanced technology and weapons than the Moriori from Chatham islands. The Moriori was a small place with simple technology and were inexperienced at war. The Moriori was invaded by Maori, because they lacked of technology and strong leadership.
Polynesia presents a varied of climate, geography, politcal, size, isolation which lead to a more moderate diversity of human adaptations. What Diamond is trying to say is that this is an example of the human societies...how we interact with one another.

Elizabeth R said...

The environment plays a big role in defining the government of its people. Polynesia is like an "experiment of history" in the way that it compares to the world. The climate of Polynesia differs and so there are different governments, just like in the real world. The interactions of each government is similar to that of separate societies.

Mara said...

The abundance of diversity and assorted features that are found in the many distinctive Polynesian islands made it almost the perfect representation of how variables such as climate, environment, isolation, political diversity, ect. affect the rates of developmental progression in groups of people that may have come from the same roots at a point in time but soon find them selves to be completely unlike each other in almost every aspect of their societies. For instance, take the collisions between the Maori and the Moriori peoples of Polynesian descent who became sudden rivals under the influence of their available environment and resources. Their confrontation ended tragically with the Maori, being the “conquistadors” of the tale, over powering the Moriori, the defeated and “primitive” force of the story. But as we take a look at this from a larger scale, the Maori, representing the more complex and high powered civilization as a result of their increased surplus that allowed for them not only to support a more dense population but one that was equipped with the time and resources to build better technology to conquer, overwhelmed the moriori who were both unaware and unprepared for their imminent attack. It wasn’t so much as to say that they couldn’t have avoided such a dreadful loss, but that their were various factors playing against them either way (isolation, not a sufficient surplus, terrain, ect.). This small illustration that Diamond offers, is in fact a good experiment of history that not only shows the effects of the environment on certain groups of people but also how these factors affect their survival and their ability to successfully endure through the many obstacles that come their way. It shows more than just one society taking over the other, it reveals how different they actually were and how it affected their perceptions of the world and their roles in history as a whole.

lilly said...

The Polynesiona Islands is an experiment on history as Diamond shows through the Moriori and Maori example. The Maori were able to conquer and defeat the Moriori because they had better weapons which means that they had adveanced technonlgy. This can also explain reality in the world. Because there were many other societies/civilizations that were superior than others.Meaning that this example shows that not all human societies are the same. Which is whay some are more advancd than others, and therfore more primitive.

sakura75212 said...

One question that i would like someone to answer is that if people who practice food production are so intelligent and advanced why did they lose to the Maori who was less advanced and seem primitive compared to the Moriori? Was it beause the Moriori were too civilized and too peaceful they forgot how to fight and lost? Is it possible to be too smart and die because of it? literally? Think about it if the Moriori were like Maori who would win. Since they come the same ancestors and if they had lived in the same environment would they cancel eachother out and have a draw or destroy eachother all together?

sakura75212 said...

oh yeah i forgot to ask if i posted 3response to the 3discussion questions do i have to do six other replys or six other replys to disccusion question?

Guillermo said...

I would like to ask, Is it a good thing for a country or a group of people to be in a military state?
The Maori show that its okay because they easily Defeated the Moriori. The Maori Were stronger in the aspects of Culture because they had religious buildings, and were extremely great farmers. So what do you thing is it better to be thinking about war or to be peacefull.